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Jimmy Walters
6,245 PointsHaving to buy a font?
I don't care who knows this, i have NEVER bought a font in my life and i don't ever plan on buying on either. I can confidently say 75% of the fonts you have to pay for... guess what? They all look pretty much identical to the thousands of free ones already out there. Furthermore if i ever did need to use a font you could only get by paying for, i'd just do about five minutes of googling and find a free download of it. You truly have to be naive to pay for a font.
9 Answers
James Barnett
39,199 PointsA few points:
Treehouse is a community of professionals whom all like to be paid for the work that we do.
You also might be interested in checking out the Copyright Basics course here on Treehouse.
Finally, in general suggesting that others ignore the Intellectual Property rights of others will probably put you on shaky ground under the Treehouse Terms of Service.
Luis La Torre
11,879 PointsReally what you are paying is exclusivity, when a font is free or very affordable, a lot of people can have access to it. That's not a problem for most people. But if you are trying to build a brand, you want your identity to be unique and apart from the rest.
Gloria Dwomoh
13,116 PointsHi Jimmy, I don't believe paying for something necessary makes someone a naive just because there are "free" options. If you read the copyright notices or license in some of the "free" fonts, they are good enough to make someone opt to buy a commercial one instead. There are some other things to consider before using a font especially when you are not satisfied with the ones you can get from places like Google Fonts. You might like to check this out How to use web-fonts legally? , there you'll find some more good reasons on when and why someone might consider buying a font.
Aurelian Spodarec
7,369 PointsHi again! :D Yes true! I remember from a video of business something about that . What seem free , it may be free as long as you don't make profit . Hope this can help in a way too.
Jimmy Walters
6,245 PointsLMAO!!!! I actually couldn't. even if i tried to force myself, care any less about copyrights. I'll use whatever font i think looks good. In the case where i could ONLY use a font that was a pay-font, i'd first download it for free, Next i would open that font in "FontLab Studio" which i would also "buy".... for free... Lastly i would make some extremely subtle changes to each character, and WALA! That font is no longer the font i download, as it been altered. Thus just like i already said, 75% or more fonts you pay for are so close to identical it would take minutes of staring at them like an idiot to perhaps* notice a difference. Therefore if i "make" a font that looks really really really really close to another font, who cares. It technically is not the same font anymore and then i'm free to put whatever license i want on it. To wrap this up, if i want a font, i get the font, i don't pay for it, and if i were to use it on the web or commercially, i would change a few, almost unnoticeable, aspects and thus i have "created" a font. Also i refer to my previous statement..... OOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWNNNNNNNNNEEEEEEEDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aurelian Spodarec
7,369 PointsHi Jimmy ,
I don't want to pick up on anyone or whatever this can seem like to other people but a simple question .
There are over 6-7 billion people in the world . There alee trillions or more images on google .
Q. Would you pick a random image and put it on you webpage ?
A = YES
B = NO
Correct answer is B.
You should not pick a random image and put it on the webpage .
Q. Why ?
Because if the owner ever see you , yes you may think it may not happen but believe me it can , and he see his picture he may want something form you . Usually this end up well but if he send you and email that he want thousands dollars for the picture you put on your webpage with ads or any other sort of making money , or even not , you may be surprised .
Oh an making fonts- aren't easy i guess. Plus how will you make your font and put in on your computer and let other see it and all that stuff? I recommend to watch Helvetica history .
I hope I'm mostly accurate how this works .
Jimmy Walters
6,245 Pointswell you weren't blinded by your pride, you would have seen i EXPLICITY listed the software in which this can be done. Oh and a little fyi for, FontLab Studo, is painfully easy to use. Now this is gonna be a real thinker here, so hold on.... Look at the "NAME" of the software and then make a guess (make sure your thinking cap is on) as to what that software is for. In case that was to difficult for you, FontLab Studio is software FOR CREATING TYPEFACES........................................................................................................................................... However it also allows you to open existing font's and make changes to their aesthetics. This is odd, it almost like i've already said all this..... Don't reply with information supported by a weak foundation, as it will crumble and only make you look stupider than you already do.
Aurelian Spodarec
7,369 PointsGood . Where is your respect ? but let me tell you something Jimmy , offence here is not tolerated . This supposed to be a nice atmosphere . Please read what i wrote above .
Here is the answer for you
http://www.wikihow.com/Create-a-Font
and
http://ilovetypography.com/2007/10/22/so-you-want-to-create-a-font-part-1/
So you want to get a font and extend it by one pixel ? i don't think it would be yours .
Of course, you can create completely your alphabet with the thingy you said or even with http://2ttf.com . But it would take some time , plus it should look good. Im now going to read a website that has a black background and red colour font or more likely hard to read coz something stick outs .
Look , you didn't understand this lessons. When you buy fonts , you can do with them not everything . It may be for your business . Or another reason . There is a difference between Helvetica and other fonts , even if they look the same, look closer , and you finally see the difference . Somebody working with fonts , will see what font your using , probably . Not every single on e, no .
Please , before you say something , think twice. It doesn't hurt .
Hope this helps ^^
And read Ken Alger post. Witch pretty much explained better what i tried to say and extended it . If that was in this post what i think i may said about fonts :D
Ken Alger
Treehouse TeacherJimmy;
Wow! You are obviously very passionate about this subject. I applaud you for taking a stance against the work type designers put into their effort and their attorneys put into helping them make their type design(s) a marketable business. While there are indeed a bunch of free fonts out there and many, as you stated very similar to paid fonts, I think the issue ultimately goes deeper than "Hey I like the looks of that, let me make some 'extremely subtle changes to each character' and then I'll be a type designer myself."
There was a discussion on this forum not too long ago about copyright, and what does and does not violate copyrighted works. While that is for the attorney's to ultimately debate, the standard that I have been informed of is "Does the new design make the average person think of the original item enough that there is confusion?" So, by your logic of making some 'extremely subtle changes' to a copyrighted work, I would submit that you are certainly pushing the boundaries.
You may certainly never be caught, much less sent a cease and desist order (or worse) for altering a font, so there probably isn't too much to ultimately concern yourself with. However, I certainly would not want to bring someone on board in my business that copies other people's designs, code, etc., makes "extremely subtle changes' to them and then passes them off as their own work or opens the company up to litigation.
Just my thoughts, and again, I applaud you for taking a, rather firm, stance on the issue.
Ken
Luis La Torre
11,879 PointsChill it with the sarcasm, you are going to scare him away. He is just a bit ignorant that's all!
Jimmy Walters
6,245 Pointswell the only time i have had to "pay" for a font was Helvetica, and it was for a project in a design class. Since i didn't have it, i put my big boy think cap on..... went to google and within 5 or so mins, found it for free. Even more so, it included all the actual Typeface, not just the font. So every variant of helvetica (which i found cheapest for $89.99) i got for free. Oh, fyi i have yet to EVER see a font where there is not twenty others that are nearly identical.... OWNED
Lush Sleutsky
14,044 PointsSome people pay for fonts and for software and music and all other stuff that is EASILY attainable for free. Why do they do it? Either they don't know any better, or they feel better about themselves for helping someone get paid for their work? My opinion? I'm pretty much with you on the free software front. I usually don't pay for stuff as far as software, music, etc (thank God for torrents). I haven't paid for music since 2001, but my cousin, for example. has not downloaded one free song in his life. Pays for every nook and cranny he can! Different strokes for different folks, which is where your argument goes flawed. It's not stupid if people pay for fonts, despite there being "identical" looking fonts out there. What you see in one font, someone else might see something else in it, and the free alternative might not catch their eye. I have no problem paying for something that is unique, and there is no other way to get it than to pay. Even if there is a free, allegedly identical, alternative, I just might pay anyway, cause certain subtleties in a font or whatever, can really tickle someone's fancy more so than someone else's. What looks identical to you could look different to someone else. Ya feels?
But anyway, it seems like you are mad or upset that copyright and intellectual property rights exist in the first place, and you are lashing out on the good people here on the forums. I'm with ya on getting free stuff over paying for stuff, obviously. Lots of people are totally opposite. But what is the reason for the discourteous posting my man? You keep saying "owned", but I'm failing to see where anyone battled with you to even give you the opportunity to own them. All I see is opinions and views? Am I missing something?
Aurelian Spodarec
7,369 PointsHi,
I could add that theres a lil bit of difference between fonts and free music nd that stuff.
Were talking about fonts that other people made ( yes other made songs too) but these people work can be used in a brand , an unique font used in a brand that earns a lot but doesn't pay for what I has to .
I agree a lot of people will get stuff for free , but depends what its used for and why you are doing it .
I hope I sort of explained what I think about it as you mentioned music etc..
Marcus H
4,267 PointsI'll leave this here.......
Jeff Busch
19,287 PointsI like the image.
Aurelian Spodarec
7,369 Pointswhen i looked at the image, it was GOODASS xd
Marcus H
4,267 Points@ Aurelian
Impossible ;)
Aurelian Spodarec
7,369 PointsMarcus H
It was , i was surprised :)
Matthew Schmookler
8,970 Pointsgorgeous image really.
Aurelian Spodarec
7,369 PointsHi . Do you know that Windows invented Arial because they didn't want to pay for every copy of Helveica? their different , not much but still. They didn't want to use Helvetica because it would cost them a fortune to get licence on every windows pc .
A small little font , can make a big difference. Of course , there are a lot of free fonts and that are pretty much the same , but guess what, there will be some font that you like but can't find or there aren't any free .
If we are talking about unique fonts , made by you for a game e.g. You could make it on illustrator by changing it properties .
Fábio Tavares da Costa
11,985 PointsIn the open source community, the word free is used as a double sided card, and freedom has much more appeal than free of charge. The same systems have open and enterprise versions and the respective price comes with it if applicable.
Technology, the word, shares its structure with words like etymology¹ and terminology². By etymology the suffix logy tracks back to Greek lectures, open doors classes (logo). That's the oral transmission, emission and reception of skills, knowledge. Hence, technology is, primarily, the transmission of the prefix via suffix.
As written language gains importance the definition of logy moves from teaching and studying to study of ..., and often, omits the emission, at least explicitly. It does not change the fact that, despite of the gap in time, whatever content you access has at least one author.
Therefore, that's on the flux of information between a minimum of two individuals, via any medium, within an undefined gap of time. Not specific to computers in any way. How to build a house or a web page are both fine candidates.
When the knowledge is kept inside the pipeline, only privileged individuals have access to how something works. The product of this version of technology, may be useful to study another subject, but is not technology on itself. Need to say, 100% legible. We don't think on ask Coca Cola for its formula.
However, when it comes to information technology, a.k.a. informatics, the version that comes with the full how to on itself has way more value to me.
I develop under open source systems and consider the approach that started this discussion bad primarily for open source. If you are running a system just because it does not cost you money, you are loosing time! You won't be able to get it back, for free or paying for.
OBS: If you spot errors, I appreciate your feedback. That's a instrumental foreign language to me.
¹ etymology: a way to track transition, influences, and gain a better understanding of how the current for took shape. ² terminology: the best set of words to express a given subject
Manav Misra
11,778 PointsI'm not advocating for 'free,' but in the example in the video, I see no reason to pay $249 instead of 'leasing' for $25 per year - most likely, would be rebranding and maybe changing fonts before the 10 years was even up.
So, in the world of fonts, I'm with Jimmy to a certain extent in that $249, for example is just too much on a client's budget. That money can be used for a bit more tweaks and touch-ups to other aspects of design, such as layout and other styles, that, in the long run will usually do more for a design than a $250 font would do over a 'free' or $25/annual font.
Jeff Busch
19,287 PointsJeff Busch
19,287 PointsIf someone wants to give their work away that's there choice, If someone wants to get paid for their work they should be. It's a no-brainer for a thinker. Maybe you're a communist?